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	<title>Comments on: Measurements of engagement aren&#039;t necessarily measurements of interest.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.zeusjones.com/blog/2009/measurements-of-engagement-arent-necessarily-measurements-of-interest/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.zeusjones.com/blog/2009/measurements-of-engagement-arent-necessarily-measurements-of-interest/</link>
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		<title>By: taulpaul</title>
		<link>http://www.zeusjones.com/blog/2009/measurements-of-engagement-arent-necessarily-measurements-of-interest/#comment-825</link>
		<dc:creator>taulpaul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 20:06:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeusjones.com/blog/?p=1120#comment-825</guid>
		<description>Popularity is fleeting.  Interesting is forever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Popularity is fleeting.  Interesting is forever.</p>
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		<title>By: Melanie Baker</title>
		<link>http://www.zeusjones.com/blog/2009/measurements-of-engagement-arent-necessarily-measurements-of-interest/#comment-824</link>
		<dc:creator>Melanie Baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 18:14:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeusjones.com/blog/?p=1120#comment-824</guid>
		<description>Hi again,

No worries, it&#039;s pretty hard for me to take offense, and really, I LOVE when people pick PostRank apart. It&#039;s from those folks that you often learn the most useful ways to improve what you&#039;re doing.

I hadn&#039;t seen the research project; thanks for the link. It&#039;s a funny balance -- we want the credibility that comes with &quot;just the facts&quot; -- measurement by algorithm. But at the same time we want the nuance and recommendations that come from social connection, which is purely human. (Though, of course, the folks who create the algorithms are human, too...)

And, of course, the same people who want to have the control over how we weight/measure things are usually the first ones to holler about compromised credibility of results, ironically. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi again,</p>
<p>No worries, it&#8217;s pretty hard for me to take offense, and really, I LOVE when people pick PostRank apart. It&#8217;s from those folks that you often learn the most useful ways to improve what you&#8217;re doing.</p>
<p>I hadn&#8217;t seen the research project; thanks for the link. It&#8217;s a funny balance &#8212; we want the credibility that comes with &#8220;just the facts&#8221; &#8212; measurement by algorithm. But at the same time we want the nuance and recommendations that come from social connection, which is purely human. (Though, of course, the folks who create the algorithms are human, too&#8230;)</p>
<p>And, of course, the same people who want to have the control over how we weight/measure things are usually the first ones to holler about compromised credibility of results, ironically. :)</p>
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		<title>By: adrian</title>
		<link>http://www.zeusjones.com/blog/2009/measurements-of-engagement-arent-necessarily-measurements-of-interest/#comment-823</link>
		<dc:creator>adrian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 19:24:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeusjones.com/blog/?p=1120#comment-823</guid>
		<description>@Melanie, thanks for stopping by and clarifying. Just so you know, I wasn&#039;t trying to pick on Postrank unfairly, I&#039;ve actually found the ranking service to be pretty useful (in my short experience) and it&#039;ll be a permanent fixture on my FF extensions. I think this is a bigger problem (as you obviously know). I did a bunch of research on this a while back, not sure if you guys saw this: http://oak.cs.ucla.edu/~cho/research/bias.html

There need to be system in place to balance out the bias that&#039;s being created by popularity systems. Glad to hear you&#039;re working on it, I&#039;ll give the discovery functionality a go.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Melanie, thanks for stopping by and clarifying. Just so you know, I wasn&#8217;t trying to pick on Postrank unfairly, I&#8217;ve actually found the ranking service to be pretty useful (in my short experience) and it&#8217;ll be a permanent fixture on my FF extensions. I think this is a bigger problem (as you obviously know). I did a bunch of research on this a while back, not sure if you guys saw this: <a href="http://oak.cs.ucla.edu/~cho/research/bias.html" rel="nofollow">http://oak.cs.ucla.edu/~cho/research/bias.html</a></p>
<p>There need to be system in place to balance out the bias that&#8217;s being created by popularity systems. Glad to hear you&#8217;re working on it, I&#8217;ll give the discovery functionality a go.</p>
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		<title>By: Melanie Baker</title>
		<link>http://www.zeusjones.com/blog/2009/measurements-of-engagement-arent-necessarily-measurements-of-interest/#comment-822</link>
		<dc:creator>Melanie Baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 18:41:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeusjones.com/blog/?p=1120#comment-822</guid>
		<description>The discussion about how to best measure &quot;interestingness&quot; has gone on for some time,  and 100 people will give you 10 different answers. (I know, cuz I&#039;m the one they tell...) :) The approach we&#039;ve taken is three-pronged:

- gather as many engagement sources as possible to capture as many expressions of interest as possible
- gather engagement metrics over time to capture stories&#039; real interest arc (some stories get all the attention immediately, others trickle in over time)
- account for the human aspect - the individual interests and random finds.

We&#039;ve had a lot of feedback about needing to account for that third item, which was the big catalyst behind the &lt;a href=&quot;http://blog.postrank.com/2009/04/07/postrank-delivers-the-best-blog-discovery-engine/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Discovery functionality&lt;/a&gt; we just launched.

I.e. it&#039;s about what YOU find interesting and what YOU read and making it easy to share that with others. Especially since there&#039;s way too much info online for any one person to keep on top of.

Cuz if I&#039;ve learned one thing from perusing the feeds in our system, it&#039;s that there are communities online around EVERYTHING, so there&#039;s always someone else into what you&#039;re into.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The discussion about how to best measure &#8220;interestingness&#8221; has gone on for some time,  and 100 people will give you 10 different answers. (I know, cuz I&#8217;m the one they tell&#8230;) :) The approach we&#8217;ve taken is three-pronged:</p>
<p>- gather as many engagement sources as possible to capture as many expressions of interest as possible<br />
- gather engagement metrics over time to capture stories&#8217; real interest arc (some stories get all the attention immediately, others trickle in over time)<br />
- account for the human aspect &#8211; the individual interests and random finds.</p>
<p>We&#8217;ve had a lot of feedback about needing to account for that third item, which was the big catalyst behind the <a href="http://blog.postrank.com/2009/04/07/postrank-delivers-the-best-blog-discovery-engine/" rel="nofollow">Discovery functionality</a> we just launched.</p>
<p>I.e. it&#8217;s about what YOU find interesting and what YOU read and making it easy to share that with others. Especially since there&#8217;s way too much info online for any one person to keep on top of.</p>
<p>Cuz if I&#8217;ve learned one thing from perusing the feeds in our system, it&#8217;s that there are communities online around EVERYTHING, so there&#8217;s always someone else into what you&#8217;re into.</p>
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		<title>By: How the real-time web shapes our information? &#124; From The Head Of Zeus Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.zeusjones.com/blog/2009/measurements-of-engagement-arent-necessarily-measurements-of-interest/#comment-821</link>
		<dc:creator>How the real-time web shapes our information? &#124; From The Head Of Zeus Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 16:35:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeusjones.com/blog/?p=1120#comment-821</guid>
		<description>[...] From The Head Of Zeus Jones    &#171; Measurements of engagement aren&#8217;t necessarily measurements of interest. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] From The Head Of Zeus Jones    &laquo; Measurements of engagement aren&#8217;t necessarily measurements of interest. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Adrian Ho</title>
		<link>http://www.zeusjones.com/blog/2009/measurements-of-engagement-arent-necessarily-measurements-of-interest/#comment-820</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrian Ho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 14:10:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeusjones.com/blog/?p=1120#comment-820</guid>
		<description>Seems to me that there are 3 different issues with being able to measure real interest.

1. Only you can really say how interested you are, your actions and behaviour aren&#039;t always affected by interesting information, so research as you suggest (Mark) is probably required.
2. Interesting is relative so what&#039;s interesting to you may not be interesting to others, so you would want a metric based on your personal interests (Lee, you&#039;ll be laughing as we&#039;ve talked about this endlessly)
3. Interesting information may take time to process and absorb before it&#039;s acted upon. Unfortunately because we have created, and are moving further towards a real-time web where information is tailored to being acted upon immediately, this problem will probably get worse before it gets better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems to me that there are 3 different issues with being able to measure real interest.</p>
<p>1. Only you can really say how interested you are, your actions and behaviour aren&#8217;t always affected by interesting information, so research as you suggest (Mark) is probably required.<br />
2. Interesting is relative so what&#8217;s interesting to you may not be interesting to others, so you would want a metric based on your personal interests (Lee, you&#8217;ll be laughing as we&#8217;ve talked about this endlessly)<br />
3. Interesting information may take time to process and absorb before it&#8217;s acted upon. Unfortunately because we have created, and are moving further towards a real-time web where information is tailored to being acted upon immediately, this problem will probably get worse before it gets better.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Wagner</title>
		<link>http://www.zeusjones.com/blog/2009/measurements-of-engagement-arent-necessarily-measurements-of-interest/#comment-819</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Wagner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 11:03:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeusjones.com/blog/?p=1120#comment-819</guid>
		<description>This may be a bad shortcut in my thinking right now, but it seems the only way to measure true engagement is to implement tools beyond the web, to get to a measure of &#039;interesting.&#039; Maybe I&#039;m talking about qualitative research, like attitudes, preferences and behaviors, somehow all mapped together, or some other ethnographic angle. I guess its not a simple answer to a very complex question. There is a water-skimming behavior that has become the typical information consumption experience online. Current analytic measures are simply not sophisticated enough to go much deeper than that at the moment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This may be a bad shortcut in my thinking right now, but it seems the only way to measure true engagement is to implement tools beyond the web, to get to a measure of &#8216;interesting.&#8217; Maybe I&#8217;m talking about qualitative research, like attitudes, preferences and behaviors, somehow all mapped together, or some other ethnographic angle. I guess its not a simple answer to a very complex question. There is a water-skimming behavior that has become the typical information consumption experience online. Current analytic measures are simply not sophisticated enough to go much deeper than that at the moment.</p>
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		<title>By: Lee</title>
		<link>http://www.zeusjones.com/blog/2009/measurements-of-engagement-arent-necessarily-measurements-of-interest/#comment-818</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 01:28:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeusjones.com/blog/?p=1120#comment-818</guid>
		<description>Completely agree! So what would be better way to measure engagement? Time on page? Clicks within the site? Likelihood to leave a comment?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Completely agree! So what would be better way to measure engagement? Time on page? Clicks within the site? Likelihood to leave a comment?</p>
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